Oh my God…I’m so sick of seeing this. We’re all on the same side! Stop tearing each other down and focus on the common enemy!
agreed! I wish I could give your post at least 5 likes
The important thing is to stand up for everyone’s human rights and dignity.
So I do respect and admire Ms. McGowan for leading the equal rights/respect for women movement but this whole incident and her comments on RuPaul also demonstrate her to be a flawed “hero” and a flawed person as we all are really. She can be insightful when it comes to the women’s movement and be ignorant of trans issues at the same time. Sounds like she has trans friends and is an ally of trans people without understanding the nuances of their struggles. She seems awfully defensive and paranoid and should open herself up to other people’s perspectives rather than being closed off and self-righteous.
However, I also don’t get what the trans activist is hoping to accomplish with her spiel at the book reading by making it so confrontational. Why is it Ms. McGowan’s job or duty to specifically address trans issues when she’s tackling the larger women’s movement? Why attack someone that you can make an ally (who probably already is) and educate them on where you’re coming from?
Who’s Rose McGowan? Even more importantly, why should I care what she thinks about anything?
In this day and age it is easy to look someone up on the internet and answer your own question rather than come to an article posted about this particular person and post a lazy comment expressing your ignorance.
And it seems you haven’t been following major national news for the past 1/3 of a year.
you don’t think you should be informed before you just dismiss and demonstrate the problems McGowan is making public via her celebrity platform?
I had several opportunities to personal view McGowan’s treatments of workers on the set of Charmed many years ago. She would frequently show up for work drunk and would constantly yell at and demand people wait on her. She was a foul mouthed prima dona who routinely treated working women in a demeaning, hostile manner. Her behavior now is the same Rose McGown everyone in Hollywood has know for years. She is a terrible public figure for the metoo movement. Watching her manic behavior in her interviews strongly suggests her long history of cocaine use is being revisited.
from what I recall reading about during the production of that show, that seems pretty standard and mild compared to that Shannon who got fired.
also, you raise an excellent point about a celebrity diva vs a real world person
something I have observed is that an individual who is a victim is not really capable of having empathy with other individuals who experienced comparable or even worse and certainly not lesser than their own,
and a bizarre unless you had the exact same you can’t understand, when empathy is exactly that extrapolation of experience, and compassion arising from how one would feel experiencing something terrible
I am a 50 year old lesbian and the number of times hetero and queer women have in person gotten angry with me because I have not been raped is bewildering, and that my not having experienced something does not make their experience worse in reality
but it does in their minds because they convince themselves it happens to every woman, trauma does things to a person’s perception proportionality.
More victim than tho does not serve the greater or common good of the community
The bathroom hysteria distracts from the core idea of rights and social access of the two genders and the public freak out when any individual subverts gender and goes from a have rights to a not have rights
best illustrates the ridiculous social assumption of rights
and silence on the without rights to the having rights gender is lost in this type of verbal pissing contest
the problem remains heterosexual men hoarding rights and wealth
“Bathroom hysteria” shows just how little you care about, and dismiss, trans issues. Implyinging that heterosexual men hoarding rights and wealth are the only problem show how little you understand “the problem” in the first place.
no, that just shows your level of understanding because that is where you stopped reading my post.
I am not implying Heterosexual Men are the problem, I am stating that they are. you did not infer correctly and your implication slur is inaccurate, which as, I have said, I state that heterosexual men are the crime leaderboard demographic across the crime categories, that poses the greatest danger to 1 men 2 women for all ages and ethnicity and sexuality demographics
just so you can complain rather than actually communicate and exchange understandings
where both of us could have benefited
instead, your post reinforces the why should I bother to care if all I get back is “not good enough” while you do nothing but add to conflict
Heterosexual men vs Heterosexual Women vs L women, B Women, T Women and also the further T Woman who are H, L or B
is one LGBTQ2 community discussion, in group and about the out group hetero mainstream
Heterosexual men vs G men, B Men, T Men and the further T Men who are H, L or B is the community discussion that is not being had, as T Men are more invisible and remain in a discussion on the women side of the spectrum, so there are many many rabbit holes for discussion to go
Heteros vs Queers is the common universal that all the letters acknowledge as the greater problem. the common universal problem is where the agreement of common ground begins, and then the internal pus and blood letting dom sub zero sum begins, which we have to not do otherwise those that would genocide us, have gotten us to do their work for them.
so if you are an LGBT or Q, perhaps you should not presume to school inside community, and if you are not one of those letters, then you have no business in internal community matters,
heterosexuals have to learn to share the public square
and only allies belong inside queer space
PFLAG, Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays are why the queer civil rights movement was fought in courts and why we won.
L, G and B all refer to a group of people demarcated by their same-sex orientation. It can be understood and explained in 1 sentence. It is logical. It makes sense. “LGBT” is a political contrivance. It has no “larger meaning.” It was a manipulation of language in order to constrict and direct our thinking, to make us unthinkingly assume that gay people were linked to transgenders and are obligated to direct our resources and labor to them. That’s the reason it was invented. The other variants are equally fraudulent and are also invented for the same reason – to leech off of LGB people, our capital, and our labor. LGB. It ends with B.
What we call ourselves is not a minor thing. This isn’t a game. It isn’t a reference to a talking point in a platform. When we play around with these letters, we alter the way we describe our very identity. We alter the way we refer to ourselves in every sentence that we speak. It needs to stop.
when I came out in the 1990s, Gay and Lesbian was all we would say to the mainstream
LGBT is not a contrivance, it is inclusion of all the members of the community across the spectrum, it is not about appearing correct, it’s about being so, and no one is limited to merely being identified under one of those letters.
It is why the best acronym is LGBTQ with Queer being the united concept of not being heteronormative.
Frankly, I’d prefer to include Kinky Heterosexuals over NAMBLA and not dealing with the community chicken hawk poor mentorship of youth who have to often been thrown out of their family homes.
And, while asexuals have been known for a long time, formal recognition within the queer community
I mean lesbian sex death bed happens for a reason
but also, the degree of resistance over transgender inclusion within our community is worse than the mainstream response; as gays and lesbians, we should know better, and we should know better than to be ethnically bigotted with classified ad fetishized demographics.
medically possible since the 1950s and something across many cultures over history
it is not surprising to me that there are now people who identify as non-binary or no gender
and, it’s not up to me to tell another person what their identity is
common ground is where the community stands together: LGBTQ2
It is very easy to get caught up in the minutiae, certain words, phrases or general descriptions in this article – and miss the central point of the message. It is a message I have been going on about on this site for months now – that message is unity.
The author points out that people spend too much time focusing on the individual groups that make up the lgbtq community. We hear some gay men disrespecting transgender people, or everyone attacking bisexuals. This type of internal warfare is divisive and weakens our political influence. The author makes the point that we are actually members on one group – because we ‘persist in living our lives as authentically as we can because doing otherwise causes stress that’s even worse than the oppression we face’. I agree with that, and see that this is a powerful political and social tool if we use it correctly. The way to use it correctly is by working together as one organic movement. Unity of purpose – forming a whole from separate parts – makes us stronger than fighting as smaller, disunited groups.
lol. All you have done is assume the conclusion, i.e., that there is such a thing as an “LGBTQ” community. There is no such thing. There isn’t even a coherent defintion of “queer.” And there is no logical reason why LGB people shold be lumped together with transgenders, who are not defined by sexual orientation and many of whom are not gay.
“We are stronger together” is factually false – in fact the conjoining makes transgenders stronger and LGBs weaker – but it’s also irrelevant. “Stronger together” is a justification for an alliance or a working relationship. It is not the basis of a common identity, which is what “LGBT” purports to be.
It is your opinion there is no lgbtq community – it is not a fact. It is my opinion there is an lgbtq community – also not a fact, Your reply has yet again highlighted the point I am making, and was made in the article. You are so concerned about definitions of individual words that you miss the ‘big picture’. I don’t believe that anyone claimed transgender people were defined by sexual orientation. Neither are Black or Asian or Hispanic people – but I also include them in our ‘community’ – the community of the oppressed. That is the point. The commonality of discrimination should bind us together as a community, not sexual orientation.
there is LGBTQ community with a long history
My Queer Community includes Transgender
the same way that my Canada includes Quebec.
via la difference, c’est la vie
Infinite diversity in infinite combinations
the physical places and history of queer people’s contributions to sciences, arts and the larger community are facts
individuals are not defined by whatever their demographics or any one of their demographics, nor are civil right dependent on those, otherwise, rights have no meaning in force and are merely words in law
and does in fact demonstrate culture and communities
Whether you are attracted to males, females or both is NOT an “identity” but sexual orientation – a measureable biological trait.
“Gender Identity,” persistent into adulthood, is a likely indicator of a trans brain.
“Sexual Identity” is meaningless hogwash; it either confirms your sexual orientation or is a lie.
indeed. heteros on the fringe of their society are not an obvious overlap with LGBTQ
although, if we let in the kinky ones, plus the friend ones
it would make the righteous even madder to have no one to normalize them
okay.. we could reset the mainstream entirely, maybe we should consider it
Excellent point. My concern, though, with incorporating allies into the acronym is that acknowledging oppression, even truly understanding it, is very different from having experienced it.
Part of our power is the respect, acceptance, and love from those OUTSIDE the community.
I think it is very telling that heteros would rather be associated in our group subculture than in their own mainstream
allies need to work on our behalf to the mainstream
not invade queer space and displace queer people
Bad enough to be marginalized out of the mainstrem
but to be displaced without our own community by people claiming to be understanding allies, who need to be working with other heteros while being friends with us, that’s is the ally part, facing outward to the mainstream, not the hang out for cool cred reward
talk about heterosexist privilege, eh.
You have this one point that kind of feels contradictory?
In one sentence you say “share” and in the next you say “only”.
That registers as exclusionary. You demand others share space, but also demand that you do not have to share space. It comes across as have your cake and eat it to, and it results in potential allies rebelling against ideas that otherwise would be good.
“heterosexuals have to learn to share the public square”
“and only allies belong inside queer space”
I can understand why it might feel contradictory
you are reading what I posted to it’s least meaning
while I mean it in the greatest reading
and it becomes more complicated when there are various degrees of the opinions being expressed from anyone’s personal opinion to a person who is a working professional
the inability of people to place themselves across the table so to speak with each other is the problem of
authoritarian people (opinions)
Authoritative people (educated professionals)
every demographic, whatever the name label has it’s “space”
private homes and the community infrastructure of work/recreation around that; which is that public square shared by all the demographics.
civil rights means being able to go about one’s lawful business unimpeded; something refusing to share everything from drinking fountains to bathrooms is denying rights and removing dignity of person.
and ghettoization by force or by economic realities, neighbourhoods will invariable have higher ratios of one or another demographic than the national average would be spread over the whole of the nation.
those who would exclude lgbtq2 from the pubic space, do not own the public space, and if their only purpose is to chase us from the public square and then into our private and collective queer space to continue to harm us
and that is what you are not seeming to understand,
LGBTQ are not friends with those who would genocide us, and we have allies, PFLAG – parents and friends, and they like us and treat us as humans
You do not get to be in the pride parade when your purpose is to shame; if you do not want to be thought of poorly by the queer community, then it’s up to you to not treat us poorly to start with and continue with, and then act as if you are the harmed by exclusion one when all the other demographics also don’t want to work or play with you.
would you invite a person into your home who is going to possibly murder you? and probably rape you beforehand?