Religion’s Problem of Proof

The Truth, with a side of snide

Here a Proof, there a Proof

Everywhere a Proof Proof.

Well, not quite.

What Constitutes Proof varies widely through the ages, in accordance with evidence gathering abilities.

For Babylonians, the proof was in convergence

For Greeks, the proof was in the maths

For Romans, the proof was in the logistics of logic being able to prove within reasonable doubt or shadow of possibility

That was before there were means and language to be able to quantify huge masses of data and valid patterns, develop predictions and test them, or conjecture at the fringe of the tech possible.

The Alchemists would never turn based metals into gold, but they developed chemistry and the scientific methods of production of chemicals and compounds that spun off all kinds of industries, invention and discovery; but Nuclear Science would – unexpectedly – inside the nuclear reaction chambers of power stations, the towers are being transformed and not just gold, higher ones too. Thus busts the myth of gold as purity, everything is transmutable, and many things are glittery.

From ancient religions that observed the stars to the science of astronomy, ground lens and more mathematics – logorythmes – sin and co, numerical data, pattern runs by squares and cubes – Algebra Algebraic real math not possible without Arabic Numerals, a system of numbers rather than a numbering system. Calculations not merely counting or numbering… Indexing Nurmerations Ruminations and Orations and cataloging libraries or inventory and dates.

Romans never did a census of population, they had inventory of territory, treasury and tribute tallies and engineering maths for Public Works and Harbours all before the advent of blueprints and working from design.

For the Moderns, the proof was in the pudding – puttering around and doing experiments within the limitations of access, and science become a profession and not just what the Idle Rich did as hobbyists and patrons.

For science, there is a method: It is often said that proof is for alcohol and mathematics, as these are really the only areas where proof has any real meaning.

 

So, anyone can assert or claim anything – they can believe it as purely and intensely and with every fibre of their being – but without proof – more than a weapon in hand by which belief has been spread – it only has meaning to the claimant – and sincerity is not evidence nor it anyone required to respect the claim, only the claimant’s geographically dependent speech government rights granted to citizens, measured by the distance between state and dominant area religion.

Sometimes, to be precise, one has to resort to not only larger words than generally used by laypersons, but the technically precise jargon of professions.

 

Which is where all religions fall down – utter lack of precise language – everything is methaphor and poetry, emotional and vauge because it’s all made up and non-quantifiable; why they all have the same zero evidence as any other – as well as lack of historically accuracy – ignoring whole sections of the earth and being culturally derived from one another, plagiarism or cultural co-opting. Cultural ebbs and flows, migration as the people goes.

Until it comes to medical science and brain imaging and understanding what is processed where and the context of how and why we experience things. Bio-chemical our brains are quantum computers, being able to consider multiple positions at the same time, until, there’s a decision to resolve.

 

I am actually shocked that religion didn’t end with the advent of “Inter-faith committees” where religious leaders of differing and different faiths got together saying it’s all the same supernatural, just worshipped in different cultural ways.

then really – it’s all the same so all that killing and trash talking each other for centuries was … oops? Oh rilly?

Then there is this issue of religion vs cult. the working meaning is a religion is something you practise but does not control you 24/7. well. um that is a fantasy – a cult is a small starter group and it’s a religion when it turns professional and continues to exist after it’s initiating personality – Scientology tells us everything we need to know and as L. Ron said – if you want to make a million dollars, start your own religion. He wrote science fiction novels as his day job…….

 

Pythagoras’ Theorem – Babylonian figures – SunSite UBC

The oldest known proof. There is evidence that Pythagoras’ Theorem was discovered very early by the Chinese and the Indians (refer to Heath’s discussion just …

Greek mathematics – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An illustration of Euclid’s proof of the Pythagorean Theorem … 1 Origins of Greek mathematics; 2 Classical period; 3 Hellenistic; 4 Achievements; 5 Transmission …

Roman litigation – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The history of Roman Law can be divided into three systems of procedure: that of … the former was preferred), although the burden of proof lay upon the plaintiff.

 

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18 Responses to Religion’s Problem of Proof

  1. Pingback: How Do You Use News? | Nina's Soap Bubble Box

  2. ltlionheart says:

    A very interesting post. Thank you. I liked the idea that ‘proof is for alcohol and maths’ and, as a scientist, i agree that ‘For science, there is a method’. For religion (although I describe myself as spiritual rather than religious), I prefer consider the word ‘proof’ as a verb instead of a noun, as used in bread-making. Once the yeast has been added, the bread is left for a time to ‘proof’. This refers to allowing time for the yeast to act chemically on the dough and reorganize (‘re-educate’) the elements in the flour/water thus causing the bread to rise above its flat ‘unenlightened’ state. Depending on temperature, virility of the yeast and other conditions, proofing of bread may take a long time or a short time. This type of spiritual inquiry changes the ‘problem of proof’ to the process of proofing which I find far more genuine. Cheers.

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  3. ltlionheart says:

    ‘Spiritual’ is pertaining to the spirit and I use this word to refer to my belief that I am a spiritual being as well as a physical being. For fifty years I have been involved in spiritual nourishment in various groups and alone. I do not consider myself a lazy person any more than I consider myself a religious person. I presume the saying ‘proof is in the pudding’ originated from the same biology as proofing bread. For those of us who make bread (or puddings), these are not word games. I have a Bachelor of Applied Science in Biology and two years research experience in cancer biology. Five years working in agricultural research taught me that I was not interested in reductionist understanding of biological science and the methods being used for research. Since then, I have focused on learning, practicing and teaching permaculture in community groups and on my own land.. I guess that makes me more like a Modern than a Scientist ‘-puttering around and doing experiments within the limitations of access’ (and resources, my own words).
    So, this is me. You seem like a relatively intelligent human being. May I ask you, ‘How do you proof the truth (physical/spiritual) in your own life?’ Kind regards.

    Liked by 1 person

    • dykewriter says:

      thank you for your response, I acknowledge your use of the word scientist to correspond with what that word means – I am not a scientist, I am a science nerd, and I took earth sciences a lifetime ago in college.

      as for how do I proof truth, because it remains whether I wish it to or not, the word “spiritual” to me means a person who wants all the benefits conferred by religion without the responsibilities of membership in formal religion. Both of those are extreme barriers in people’s ability to communicate with me.

      I am an agoraphobic coping with PTSD,partly with this on-line journal.

      Liked by 1 person

    • dykewriter says:

      I would appreciate it if you shared your thoughts about the quantum brain and this new field of study – bio-physics.

      If you would like do do that as a post on your blog and share the link here, I would greatly encourage and appreciate that.

      Please and thank you.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. ltlionheart says:

    In the past twenty years, much research has been done on brain neuropeptides summarised in a book entitled ‘Molecules of Emotion’ by Candace B. Pert. You (or your Dad) might enjoy reading this. Here is the link you asked for regarding the quantum brain: https://ltlionheart.wordpress.com/the-quantum-brain/
    And you may be interested in our (my husband and I both write for this blog) most recent blog: Science and Spirituality. Cheers.

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    • dykewriter says:

      My Dad is unfortunately “in hospital” as they annoyingly phrase it on the evening news; I thank you most kindly for this post on your blog and will read and respond to cross blog discuss – and I have to say how utterly timely your post has arrived.

      Just for background, I first heard of “Bio-Physics” when a University Bachelor Degreed Student mentioned it was his background.

      I asked him to explain it and it was a very Millenial to Gen X moment that clarified for me the Boomer and Gen X divide most starkly. 🙂

      He was unable to explain it at all.

      so I asked him “Because you failed to learn it or you are assuming that I can’t understanding what you are saying.”

      I think the only thing funner than making someone blush blood beet red is making them go completely shock white.

      I have incorporated the assumption of Quantum Brain in my Raw Recovery Process, and meditation and behavioural management are one stream of brain re-coding. 🙂

      it is really a GIGO matter, eh?

      Liked by 1 person

      • ltlionheart says:

        I hope this article on ‘The Quantum Brain’ was helpful. We are also involved in a recovery process. One of our daughters had a brain tumor removed last year so we have been reading extensively to learn how to help her recover from this trauma physically and emotionally. One of the most helpful experts was Norman Doidge who is the author of ‘The Brain that Changes Itself’ and ‘The Brain’s Way of Healing’. The first of these books has some good information on post-trauma healing. Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP) practitioners are popular in Australia and without a doubt GIGO is a big player in our mental/emotional health package. Our minds have to cope with quite an assault and learning to heal and nourish this part of myself (and others) is an ongoing journey! Kind Regards.

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      • dykewriter says:

        Neuro Linguistic Programming (NLP) was a failed psuedo nonsense outta California in the 1970s and has be re-crafted with tarted up therapy sounding language used primarily in the workshop/motivational industry and is the current Hollywood Script writing Fad. I did like it on the first pass through, when I re-blogged it and I am building on to my response.

        I have recently filed paperwork towards a human rights complaint in Canada and need to complete the application paperwork for the on behalf of women class action against the RCMP in Canada by the 24th of this month, done in part as a therapy and thus into the bureaucracy I challenge the Windmills, my own donkey I suppose, LOL.

        I have found 3 things helpful thus far: my ethical centre, my absurdist nature and the love of my parents. I very much recommend recreating or touching on as many childhood long term memories as you can – music and movies – but also family members and events, it will help her to remember fro, whom and where she first assembled her personality, as well as emotional generation and brain stimulation.

        Liked by 1 person

  5. ltlionheart says:

    Thank you for this suggestion – shall implement. Makes good sense! All the best with your application.

    Liked by 1 person

    • dykewriter says:

      Thanks, it’s a very much one step at a time thing and ignoring the scope/magnitude so as to not trigger the Fight/Flight/Freeze Response System.

      Liked by 1 person

    • dykewriter says:

      You will find information about Coma and Stroke helpful, to bring back memory and personality factors. 🙂 gosh, glad I could helpfully suggest, I draw from autism management, it helps with trauma and stimulation, but also retirement articles moreso than depression ones. so also thinks that are similar and related to, helps to also stimulate thinking in relationships, and transferable of skills and interelated interests. brains need to be used to be retained.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Pingback: Quantum Brains: A Dialog | Nina's Soap Bubble Box

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